Chapter 3 - The Laws of Keli Rishon, Sheini and Shlishi

3:1 A Keli Rishon

Standing on the Fire

a) As stated previously, even a fully cooked food1 may not be placed in a Keli Rishon that is standing on the fire because “it looks like cooking.”

b) Food may be transferred from one pot standing on the fire to another pot standing on the fire. For example, if the cholent needs more water, one may take the cholent off the fire and hold it under the tap of the Shabbos kettle and add hot water.2

c) One may not stir or serve fully cooked food from a pot that is standing on the fire; rather, the pot must be removed from the fire and then the contents served.3 Regarding returning the pot to the flame, see below, Chapter 7.

d) Regarding viewing the contents of a pot standing on the fire, see Section 5:2.

3:2 Placing Food on Top of a Keli Rishon Standing on the Fire

The following foods may be placed on the top of a Keli Rishon even though it is standing on the fire:4

a) Any fully cooked dry solid, either hot or cold; e.g., cold meat,5 potatoes, kugel, or challos6 may be placed on top of a pot.7

N.B. If meat is being placed on a pareve kettle, care should be taken to put the meat on a plate so that there is no contact with the kettle.

b) A liquid that has been fully cooked and that has cooled but still remains warm/hot (although not Yad Soledes Bo), in which case it is not subject to the laws of Bishul — see Section 2:8. A cold liquid may not be placed on top of a pot.

3:3 A Keli Rishon that Has Been Removed from the Fire

When removing a Keli Rishon from the fire, one should be careful:

a) not to hold the Keli with a damp cloth;

b) not to place the hot Keli on a wet surface, sink or damp cloth. Ideally, it should be placed on a dry surface on a heat absorbent mat.

A Keli Rishon that has been removed from the fire8 still has the power of a Keli Rishon and has the ability to cook. Therefore:

a) uncooked foods

b) cold liquids

9 (either uncooked or cooked)

c) soluble solids, e.g. sugar, salt, etc.,

d) baked foods, e.g. bread, matzah

may not be placed in a Keli Rishon even after it has been removed from the fire.

Following the rules of Ein Bishul Achar Bishul:

a) cold, dry pre-cooked solids

b) warm, pre-boiled liquids

may be put into a Keli Rishon that has been removed from the fire.10

It has already been explained that one may not stir a food standing on the fire; however, once the pot has been removed from the fire, then one may ladle out the contents of the pot even from the bottom of the pot as long as the food is fully cooked.11

N.B. If a Keli Rishon has been emptied of its contents; e.g., one poured the remains of the chicken soup down the sink, one must be careful not to pour a small quantity of water into the pot (for cleaning purposes), as this would cook the water. However, one may pour a large quantity of water into the pot so that the resulting liquid would definitely not reach Yad Soledes Bo.12

3:4 Irui Keli Rishon

The rule of Irui is that Irui Mevashel Kedei Kelipah, i.e., pouring from a Keli Rishon has the power to cook the outer layer of the food onto which it is poured. Therefore Irui Keli Rishon is prohibited:

a) onto uncooked solids;

b) onto liquids,

13 e.g., water from the Shabbos kettle may not be poured directly into a small amount of cold milk in a cup;14

c) onto cold, pre-cooked soluble solids. Therefore water may not be poured directly from the urn onto instant coffee, instant tea, instant soup, drinking chocolate, sugar, etc., since some opinions consider soluble solids — once dissolved — as cooled off liquids;15 and

d) onto baked foods.

Again following the rules of Ein Bishul Achar Bishul, Irui from a Keli Rishon may be done on:

a) cold, pre-cooked solids; e.g., hot gravy may be poured onto a cold, pre-cooked piece of meat;

b) warm, pre-cooked liquids. Therefore if soup has been served and the soup in one’s bowl is still warm but not as hot as one would wish, one may add hot soup from the Keli Rishon through Irui.16, 17

N.B. It must be noted that hot water flowing from a tap is considered an Irui Keli Rishon since the hot water pipe is connected to the boiler, which is a Keli Rishon. The usage of hot water systems will be discussed in a later chapter — in general one may not use hot water from the tap on Shabbos as it will activate the boiler — however even if the boiler was turned off before Shabbos and may therefore not be activated, hot water from the tap must still be considered an Irui Keli Rishon.18

3:5 Davar Gush

a) There is a dispute among the Poskim regarding the status of a Davar Gush. Some Poskim treat a Davar Gush no differently from any other food, with all the relevant dinim of Keli Rishon, Sheni, Shlishi, etc., applying to a Davar Gush. Other Poskim are more stringent. They maintain that since the Davar Gush retains its heat, it must still be considered a Keli Rishon even after it has been transferred to a Keli Sheni.

Practically, one may rely on the lenient opinion. The Mishnah Berurah however states that one should follow the stringent opinion;19 e.g., according to the strict opinion, mayonnaise may not be placed on a hot potato.

b) According to some Poskim, pre-cooked liquid (even if totally cooled), e.g. ketchup, may be placed on a Davar Gush in a Keli Shlishi. For this reason, butter or margarine may be smeared on a hot potato or corn in a Keli Shlishi.20 Others however are stringent in this matter.

c) Pre-cooked salt may be placed on a Davar Gush in a Keli Sheni on the condition that the salt will not dissolve.21

d) Even according to the strict opinion, a Davar Gush has the status of a Keli Rishon only when it is standing independently on a plate. However if the Davar Gush is within a soup, it has the same status as the soup.22

e) A hot Davar Gush may not be removed from a Keli Rishon and placed inside a cool liquid — even if placed in a large quantity of liquid. For example, one may not place a hot potato in a bowl of cold water.23 For the same reason, it would be prohibited to cool a hot, hard-boiled egg in a pan of cold water.24

f) One may not place a hot Davar Gush on a cold, unboiled liquid; e.g., one may not place a hot potato on a plate on which there is a little oil.25

3:6 Keli Sheni

When discussing the dinim of a Keli Sheni, a distinction must be made between a Keli Sheni which is boiling hot and a Keli Sheni which is not boiling hot but is still Yad Soledes Bo. First let us learn the dinim of a Keli Sheni that is Yad Soledes Bo but not boiling hot.

Although a Keli Sheni does not have the same cooking powers as a Keli Rishon and cannot cook Keshei Bishul, it still has the ability to cook foods that are easily cooked — Kalei Bishul (see Section 2.7). Since we are not sure which foods should be considered Keshei or Kalei Bishul — for all practical purposes we consider all foods to be Kalei Bishul except water, oil and other liquids26 which are definitely Keshei Bishul and will not be cooked in a Keli Sheni.

The resulting halachah is therefore that all uncooked solids (except the known Keshei Bishul) may not be placed into a Keli Sheni.

Included in this prohibition are baked foods that may not be placed into a Keli Sheni. This is because Yesh Bishul Achar Afiyah — baked foods are considered to be Kalei Bishul and may therefore not be placed into a Keli Sheni. For example, it is prohibited to dip a biscuit into a cup of tea in a Keli Sheni, or to place matzah or bread in a hot soup that is in a Keli Sheni. (The dinim of a ladle shall be discussed later.)

The following items may be placed into a Keli Sheni:

a) Liquids; e.g., water or milk may be added to a Keli Sheni. This is true even if only a small amount of liquid is added;27

b) A dry, pre-cooked solid may be added to a Keli Sheni;

c) “Tavlin.” In general, Tavlin may be defined as spices that give taste to the food. Included are onions and garlic.28 Chazal permitted Tavlin to be added to a hot Keli Sheni.29

d) Tea. Although tea leaves may be regarded as Tavlin, the accepted custom in all circles is only to use a Keli Shlishi when making tea. Herbal teas must also be made in a Keli Shlishi.30

e) Sugar. Sugar may be regarded as Tavlin and may be added to a Keli Sheni.31 However one may not pour hot water from a Keli Rishon onto sugar.32

f) Coffee and cocoa. Coffee and cocoa are not regarded as Tavlin and may not be placed in a Keli Sheni.33

g) Instant coffee and tea. There are opinions that allow instant coffee and tea to be added to a Keli Sheni, however one should be stringent and only use a Keli Shlishi.34 It must be noted that even according to the lenient opinion, it is prohibited to pour directly from a Keli Rishon onto the granules, rather the water must be poured first and then the coffee added.

h) Salt. The Alter Rebbe is of the opinion that salt may not be added to a Keli Sheni, however it may be added to a Keli Shlishi.35

3:7 A Very Hot Keli Sheni

Until this point, we have discussed putting items into a Keli Sheni that is Yad Soledes Bo.

However, some Poskim are of the opinion that if the contents of the Keli Sheni are much hotter than Yad Soledes Bo — e.g., water that has just been poured from the Shabbos kettle into a cup, in which case the water is still boiling, then it is still to be considered as a Keli Rishon.

According to this opinion, one may not pour a cold liquid into a Keli Sheni whose contents are boiling. For example, one may not pour a little milk into a boiling hot cup of water, or add a little cold water to a boiling hot bowl of soup.

Due to this opinion — practically speaking, one should always use a Keli Shlishi.36

3:8 Irui Keli Sheni — Pouring from a Keli Sheni

Although a Keli Sheni has the ability to cook Kalei Bishul, Irui Keli Sheni does not have the same power, and therefore Irui Keli Sheni may be made on uncooked food and unboiled liquids. Irui Keli Sheni may also be made on baked foods.

However Chazal enumerated certain foods that are considered as Kalei Bishul and are cooked even by an Irui Keli Sheni (whose contents are Yad Soledes Bo). These are: very small raw fish, herring, and raw eggs.

Regarding a thermos flask: Since it retains heat, some Poskim are of the opinion that one may not put into a thermos those items that are otherwise allowed to be placed into a Keli Sheni. However, the Poskim write that hot liquid poured from a thermos is to be considered an Irui Keli Sheni.37

3:9 Keli Shlishi

Most foods may be placed into a Keli Shlishi.38 However, foods which are able to be cooked in a Keli Shlishi such as raw eggs and instant oats may not be placed in a Keli Shlishi.39

Practical examples of use of a Keli Shlishi:

a) Matzah and bread may be dipped into hot soup that is in a Keli Shlishi.

b) A biscuit or a slice of lemon may be dipped into a cup of tea in a Keli Shlishi.

This is the case even if the liquid in the Keli Shlishi is very hot.

3:10 A Ladle

What is the status of a ladle?

The Poskim write that it makes a difference how much time the ladle spent inside the Keli Rishon. If the ladle was inside the Keli Rishon long enough for the contents of the ladle to be as hot as the contents of the Keli Rishon, then the ladle is to be considered a Keli Rishon, and the liquid poured from the ladle an Irui Keli Rishon.

However if the ladle was quickly inserted into the Keli Rishon and removed immediately, then it has the status of a Keli Sheni and the contents poured from the ladle are considered an Irui Keli Sheni.

Practically speaking, unless the ladle was removed immediately from the Keli Rishon, we should always consider the ladle a Keli Rishon and pouring from a ladle an Irui Keli Rishon.40

Regarding the bowl into which the contents of the ladle are poured:

Some Poskim41 are of the opinion that although the ladle is given the status of a Keli Rishon, the bowl may be regarded as a Keli Shlishi. A practical outcome of this halachah would be that if soup was ladled out of a Keli Rishon and poured into a bowl, it would be permitted to add salt to the soup — even according to the Alter Rebbe — see dinim of Keli Sheni above. One would also be allowed to add matzah, etc., to the soup as it is considered a Keli Shlishi. Those who follow this opinion and add salt to soup that has been ladled out of a Keli Rishon into a bowl, have whom to rely upon.

However, other Poskim42 are of the opinion that the bowl is to be considered a Keli Sheni, and for salt or matzah to be added to the soup, it must first be transferred to a Keli Sheni, e.g., a soup tureen, and then to the bowl, making the bowl a definite Keli Shlishi.

It is common practice in many Jewish homes for soup to be placed in a Keli Shlishi to avoid all such problems of Bishul. This custom is praiseworthy.43

Another problem that arises when using a ladle is that if after removing the ladle from the Keli Rishon, the soup remains on the ladle go cold, then it would be prohibited to reinsert the ladle into the Keli Rishon unless the ladle was first wiped dry. To avoid this problem some people are careful to leave the ladle inside the Keli Rishon between servings.44

The same is true of the pot cover on which, if when removed, the liquid cooled. In such a case, it must be wiped dry before it is replaced on a hot pot.

« Previous

Terms Used in the Laws of Bishul

Bishul Achar Bishul: Cooking After Cooking

Footnotes

It is prohibited to add any food, whether solid, liquid, cooked or uncooked, hot or cold. The example of a fully cooked food is quoted as one may think that since there is no cooking after cooking with a cooked solid, one may return it to the fire; however this is prohibited because it “looks like cooking.”

The transfer should not be done through a Keli Sheni; e.g., to take a jug, fill it with hot water, and then pour the water from the jug into the cholent would be prohibited. Rather, the water should be transferred from one Keli Rishon to the other. However a dry, clean ladle may be used, e.g. to ladle hot water from the kettle and pour it into the cholent as long as the ladle is held in the hot water for a short while so that it attains the status of a Keli Rishon (see the laws of a ladle below — it should also be noted that a pareve ladle should be used for this purpose). See below, Sec. 8:7, for a full review of the laws of adding water to cholent.

Even though the food is fully cooked and not subject to further Bishul, the Poskim write that one should not stir the food while on the flame, as one may come to make a mistake and think that it is permitted to stir, and inadvertently come to stir a partially cooked food. See Shabbos KeHalachah, Biurim, p. 217. Stirring water is an exception to this rule and it is therefore permitted as stated in the previous note to ladle out water from a kettle into a cholent (ibid., p. 224).

Although, as mentioned previously, one may not place any food into a Keli Rishon on a fire since it looks like cooking; however, placing food on top of a pot does not look like cooking.

See below Sec. 4:5 where it is explained that if the meat or kugel has fat which will melt into a liquid when heated, it may not be placed on top of a Keli Rishon.

Care must be taken with a challah that has come straight out of the freezer. If it has ice on it, it is not permissible to place it on top of a pot. One should wait until the ice defrosts and evaporates and then place the challah on the pot.

If the food is placed in silver foil, care should be taken not to wrap the food a number of times in the foil as this would constitute Hatmanah. Rather the food should be wrapped only once in the foil (to keep it from scattering). Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 202.

But is still Yad Soledes Bo. Obviously, if the pot has fully cooled it no longer has the ability to cook.

A large amount of cold liquid may be poured into a Keli Rishon that has been removed from the fire. Since a large quantity is being poured, there is no worry that it will be heated to Yad Soledes and is therefore permitted (Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch 318:21).

However care should be taken to pour the cold liquid all at once so that there would not arise the opportunity for any of the added liquid to be cooked (Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 110).

10.

However if some food was added to the Keli Rishon after it was removed from the fire, the Keli Rishon may not be returned to the stove even if all the conditions of Chazarah were fulfilled (ibid., p. 201).

11.

Ibid., p. 218. However one should refrain from stirring the contents.

12.

Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch 318:21. Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 122.

13.

The reason of “Irui Mevashel Kedei Kelipah” (i.e., Irui cooks the outer layer of the food) does not apply to a liquid, since liquids mix immediately. Following the general rule that if something hot is placed on something cold, the lower cold entity cools the upper entity, there are opinions in the Rishonim that allow an Irui Keli Rishon onto liquids, reasoning that the lower cold liquid will cool the poured hot liquid. This in fact is the opinion of the Alter Rebbe in Shulchan Aruch 318:20.
However the Tzemach Tzedek writes that one should be stringent not to pour hot water from a Keli Rishon into a small amount of liquid since ultimately the liquid will be heated by the Irui to Yad Soledes Bo (Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 112).
It would definitely be permitted to pour hot water from a Keli Rishon into a large quantity of cold water, e.g. one may pour hot water from a kettle into a large bowl of cold water, as long as the resulting water is not Yad Soledes. Or, in the example given with the cup of milk, it would be permitted to add a little hot water from the urn to a cup full of cold milk to warm it slightly.
It should also be noted that in the above cases where it is permissible to make an Irui Keli Rishon, this is true even if the Keli Rishon is on the fire, e.g. even if the kettle is on the fire (or an electric kettle that has an element inside), it is permitted to pour hot water directly from the kettle into a large quantity of water (Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 114).

14.

See previous footnote. It is permitted to pour directly from a Keli Rishon onto a bottle full of milk; e.g., one may warm a baby’s bottle by pouring hot water onto it directly from the Shabbos kettle (ibid., p. 34).

15.

This is the opinion of the Alter Rebbe in his Siddur (see Shabbos KeHalachah, pp. 148-149). It must be pointed out that even the Mishnah Berurah who considers a soluble solid as a Davar Yavesh also agrees that one should not place soluble solids in a Keli Rishon nor make an Irui Keli Rishon on them (ibid., p. 152).

16.

One could even go as far to say that even if the soup in the bowl was cold, one may still add hot soup to the bowl through Irui.

17.

The reason is as follows:
a) The concept of Yesh Bishul Achar Bishul with a liquid is disputed among the Poskim: In the final analysis, a compromise is reached by the Poskim and the rule applies only if the liquid has totally cooled.
b) Irui Keli Rishon on a liquid, as explained in the footnote above, is allowed by many Poskim. However the Poskim are stringent if the Irui is into a small amount of liquid.
However when that liquid has already been cooked, as in this case where the soup has been cooked and subsequently cooled, then we may couple both leniencies to allow an Irui Keli Rishon onto cooled pre-cooked liquids, i.e., allow hot soup to be ladled into the cold soup. (One may also consider the point that according to some Poskim, the ladle is considered a Keli Sheni — see Sec. 3:10 on using a ladle.)
For a full discussion of this point, see Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 268.
In order to avoid confusion — as not everybody is so well versed in this halachah, whereas the halachah that one may cook a warm pre-cooked liquid is well known — we wrote in the text that an Irui Keli Rishon may only be done on a warm pre-cooked liquid.

18.

Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 36.

19.

Ibid., p. 91. Even according to the Mishnah Berurah, in an instance where the stringency was mistakenly overlooked, or in time of need, one may rely on the lenient opinion.

20.

Ibid., p. 96. See footnotes there for his reasoning as to why a Keli Shlishi is necessary.

21.

Ibid., p. 97.

22.

Ibid., p. 94.

23.

Ibid., p. 118. This is because the Davar Gush will cook the surrounding water.

24.

However the egg may be cooled by rinsing it under the tap (ibid., p. 120).

25.

Ibid., p. 119.

26.

Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch 318:12. This would include unpasteurized milk. It should be noted that this is the view of the Alter Rebbe. However other Poskim are of the opinion that only pre-boiled liquids, e.g., pasteurized milk, may be placed in a Keli Sheni. See Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 43.

27.

Even if the resultant liquid is Yad Soledes Bo (ibid., p. 59).

28.

This follows the ruling of the Alter Rebbe 318:11. However, it should be noted that the Mishnah Berurah rules stringently and does not allow onions or garlic to be added to a Keli Sheni.

29.

Various reasons are given by the Poskim why Tavlin are permitted in a Keli Sheni (see Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 46,47).

30.

Ibid., p. 51,52.

31.

Ibid., p. 156, Biurim (11).

32.

Siddur of the Alter Rebbe. Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 149. See also Biurim, p. 150.

33.

Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 54.

34.

Ibid., p. 54,55.

35.

This follows the opinion of the Alter Rebbe in his Siddur. The Mishnah Berurah is more lenient and allows salt to be added to a Keli Sheni (see Shabbos KeHalachah, pp. 156-158).

36.

It should be noted that even according to the Poskim who consider boiling hot water in a Keli Sheni like that of a Keli Rishon, they agree that once it has been transferred to a Keli Shlishi, there applies all the leniencies of a Keli Shlishi (see ibid., pp. 64-66).

37.

Ibid., p. 78.

38.

This is the opinion of most Poskim. However some Poskim are of the opinion that one may not place the extreme Kalei Bishul even in a Keli Shlishi. According to these Poskim, it would be preferable to make an Irui Keli Sheni on these foods rather than place them inside a Keli Shlishi. One should follow the stringent opinion if no extra difficulty will be incurred (ibid., pp.80-82).

39.

Ibid., p. 83.

40.

Ibid., p. 86.

41.

Ibid. The reasoning for this din is given by the Responsa Minchas Yitzchok, Vol. 5, Sec. 127:3, in which he explains that regarding the ladle itself, since there is a dispute whether it is considered a Keli Rishon or Sheni, we are stringent and give it the status of a Rishon. However, regarding the question of whether the bowl is a Keli Sheni or Shlishi, we are lenient and give it the status of a Keli Shlishi.

42.

The reasoning behind this opinion is: a) it is difficult to estimate how long the ladle has to remain in the Keli Rishon to achieve the status of a Keli Rishon; b) even if it is considered a Keli Sheni — if the soup is very hot, it has the din of a very hot Keli Sheni (see Sec. 3:7) which anyway is to be considered a Keli Rishon. For these reasons, the ladle should be considered a Keli Rishon and the bowl a Keli Sheni.

43.

Those who do not use a tureen and would like to add salt to the soup in the bowl should be careful to remove the ladle immediately from the Keli Rishon so that it has the status of a Keli Sheni, thereby making the soup bowl a Keli Shlishi.

44.

Shabbos KeHalachah, p. 117. Note that in a case where a ladle was used to ladle out of a Keli Sheni, it need not be wiped dry before re-insertion, even if the liquid on the ladle cooled totally (ibid).

By Nissan Dovid Dubov

Rabbi Nissan Dovid Dubov, a rabbinic scholar, lecturer and author, is director of Chabad Lubavitch in Wimbledon, UK.

Chapter 3 - The Laws of Keli Rishon, Sheini and Shlishi

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